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Vægtløftere vs. sprintere??

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Jeg synes det eret tarveligt navn han har brugt til at udtrykke sin uvidenhed gennem!!!

Mads (skriver IKKE phd om noget som helst og har ingen planer om at købe ½ marathon!)

Edited by madsSWIM

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ahh, slap nu lidt af. Der er ingen grund til at henrette fyren. Der er rigeligt, der har klappet til ham nu :bigsmile: Det er lidt billigt at forsætte i det uendelige.

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Guest DBM

Jeg har ikke fået noget svar fra Dr. Squat endnu! :dry:

Randy fra dragondoor.com, har forsøgt at komme til bunds i sagen:

Well comrades, unless DBM's efforts turns up a new and valid citation from Dr. Squat, it appears that we are back to "Urban Legend" land when it comes to research supporting weightlifters outdoing sprinters at short distances.

I e-mailed Dr. J.E. Lindsay Carter over the weekend and asked him if his work bore out the claims made for it. (See previous threads for citations) He replied that he had never done any work on the performance of athletes. His work had to do with physique assessment only. He acknowledged that one might find similarities between the physiques of certain weight classes of weightlifters and sprinters by looking at his work, but that performance could not be extrapolated from it. Furthermore, he indicated he had not heard of any research comparing the performance of weightlifters and sprinters.

Mark Cameron (US National Champ in the mid-late 70's early 80's in the old 110 kg class and the only non-super heavy US lifter to CJ over 500lbs)posted the following anecdote on a different board in response to my query about research, "Be careful you don't confuse speed with acceleration and power. Also speed at what? An historical anecdote (the privilege of old guys). I went to the University of MD at the same time Renaldo Nehemiah did (former 60m WR holder). I could beat him for 10 yards (no blocks, standing start) after that I was looking at his behind zooming away."

Anecdotes are not research, however. I don't like being wrong any more than the next guy and I do know in matters of science all "facts" are contingent. Truth trumps opinion and wishful thinking. Many weightlifters have incorporated sprinting into their general conditioning and it may be some coach at some time noticed over short distances his charges were outperforming trained sprinters and the story got started that way. But that's just conjecture. Unfortunately, Dr. Carter's work got conflated with the claims, adding a veneer of legitimacy where there was, in fact, none. Mark's post demonstrates that the claim for weightlifters is not preposterous. Nonetheless, I am disappointed with being misled and disappointed with those in my sport (including myself) for being sloppy and playing fast and loose with alleged facts.

Thanks to the comrades who "called" me on my initial post. I am the better informed for it and it has been fun digging out the truth and sharing the process with the forum.

Best,

Randy

Edited by DBM

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It's not a myth.

The reasearch was done by Dr. J. E. Lindsay Carter:

"Kinathropometric studies at the Mexico Olympic Games, 1968"

"Kinathropometric studies at the Montreal Olympic Games, 1976"

I believe they were sponsored by the IOC.

BUTCH!

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    from his C.V.

    periodical:Carter, J.E.L., M. Hebbelinck, and A. de Garay. (1978). Anthropometric profiles of Olympic athletes at Mexico City. In: Biomechanics of Sports and Kinanthropometry, Vol.6. F. Landry and W.A.R. Orban (Eds). Miami: Symposia Specialists, (pp. 305-312).

    book resource:

    Carter, J.E.L. (Ed.) (1984). Physical Structure of Olympic Athletes. Part II. Kinanthropometry of Olympic Athletes. Medicine and Sport Science, Vol. 18. Basel: S. Karger.

    chapter 10. Comparative Factor Analyses of Anthropometric Variables for Athletes at the Mexico City and Montreal Olympic Games. H.A. King and J.E.L. Carter. (pp. 202-211.)

    papers presented by invitation(2 of the 4 on the topic in question)Four invited presentations at the I Curso Internacional de Ciencias aplicadas al Deporte, in Montevideo, Uruguay, 1-4 July, 1995. “The somatotype method of Heath and Carter”; “Growth, maturation and development: introduction and concepts”; “Kinathropometric studies at the Mexico Olympic Games, 1968”; “Kinathropometric studies at the Montreal Olympic Games, 1976”.

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Guest DBM
    from his C.V.

    periodical:Carter, J.E.L., M. Hebbelinck, and A. de Garay. (1978). Anthropometric profiles of Olympic athletes at Mexico City. In: Biomechanics of Sports and Kinanthropometry, Vol.6. F. Landry and W.A.R. Orban (Eds). Miami: Symposia Specialists, (pp. 305-312).

    book resource:

    Carter, J.E.L. (Ed.) (1984). Physical Structure of Olympic Athletes. Part II. Kinanthropometry of Olympic Athletes. Medicine and Sport Science, Vol. 18. Basel: S. Karger.

    chapter 10. Comparative Factor Analyses of Anthropometric Variables for Athletes at the Mexico City and Montreal Olympic Games. H.A. King and J.E.L. Carter. (pp. 202-211.)

    papers presented by invitation(2 of the 4 on the topic in question)Four invited presentations at the I Curso Internacional de Ciencias aplicadas al Deporte, in Montevideo, Uruguay, 1-4 July, 1995. “The somatotype method of Heath and Carter”; “Growth, maturation and development: introduction and concepts”; “Kinathropometric studies at the Mexico Olympic Games, 1968”; “Kinathropometric studies at the Montreal Olympic Games, 1976”.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thomas, din point er??? :blink:

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Guest DBM

Men konklusionen må altså være, at det er en myte. Irriterende, at Dr.Squat ikke har besvaret min mail....

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Jeg har den her avi liggende på min pc'er, hvor en styrkeløfter løber om kap med en sprinter, og de er godtnok meget lige - specielt i starten. Ved dog ikke hvem der løber, eller hvor den stammer fra, men mener at kunne huske, at det er TJ der i sin tid linkede til den. Ved ikke om det kunne være et spor?

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Af personlig erfaring, kan jeg indskyde at jeg har en vertical leap på 85-90 cm (med tilløb, på to ben, nok minus 5-10 cm uden tilløb, stadig på to ben - vurderet af Hr. Hammer), er 175 cm høj og vejer 67 kg.

Jeg har aldrig dyrket basket eller noget atletisk gejl af en art :blush:, andet end tung(relativt :innocent: ) squat/dødløft i 6-8 mdr i forbindelse med styrketræning.

Er også ret habil på en 60 meters, dog ingen tider at angive.

Hr. Hammer og jeg, snakkede lidt om emnet her idag, og vi blev enige om at i vores tilfælde, var hypotesen gældende. :4smartass:

.. Now thats science for ya' :tongue:

Edited by Krumborg

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Jeg har den her avi liggende på min pc'er, hvor en styrkeløfter løber om kap med en sprinter, og de er godtnok meget lige - specielt i starten. Ved dog ikke hvem der løber, eller hvor den stammer fra, men mener at kunne huske, at det er TJ der i sin tid linkede til den. Ved ikke om det kunne være et spor?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Er det ikke bodybuilderen Kevin Levrone, du mener?

Det har vist allerede været omtalt i tråden :smile:

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Af personlig erfaring, kan jeg indskyde at jeg har en vertical leap på 85-90 cm (med tilløb, på to ben, nok minus 5-10 cm uden tilløb, stadig på to ben - vurderet af Hr. Hammer)
gældes ikke :wink: man skal have målebåndet frem, og så er det med stående afsæt.
Er det ikke bodybuilderen Kevin Levrone, du mener?

Det har vist allerede været omtalt i tråden

tænkte jeg også på, men er ikke sikker og ville blot lige nævne det :bigsmile:

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Af personlig erfaring, kan jeg indskyde at jeg har en vertical leap på 85-90 cm (med tilløb, på to ben, nok minus 5-10 cm uden tilløb, stadig på to ben - vurderet af Hr. Hammer)

gældes ikke :wink: man skal have målebåndet frem, og så er det med stående afsæt.

Roger - tjekker den lige idag så :cooldance:

Edited by Krumborg

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Men konklusionen må altså være, at det er en myte. Irriterende, at Dr.Squat ikke har besvaret min mail....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vi kan vel ikke konkludere at selve fænomenet er en myte. Vi kan vel kun konkludere at de omtalte resultater ikke har fundet sted. Der er jo stadigvæk masser af beviser på at vægtløftere er ekstremt hurtige på korte distancer, og kan hoppe ekstremt højt.

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Guest DBM
Men konklusionen må altså være, at det er en myte. Irriterende, at Dr.Squat ikke har besvaret min mail....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vi kan vel ikke konkludere at selve fænomenet er en myte. Vi kan vel kun konkludere at de omtalte resultater ikke har fundet sted. Der er jo stadigvæk masser af beviser på at vægtløftere er ekstremt hurtige på korte distancer, og kan hoppe ekstremt højt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Præcis.. Det var også det, jeg mente! :4smartass:

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