Athlete X

Det har jeg, ligesom AX, lidt svært ved at se. Men ud fra hvad der er skrevet om football og eur. fodbold, vil jeg dog tro, at håndbold heller ikke fordrer laktisk arbejde - men jeg ved det ikke.

Det er godt at høre. "Derude" er dog et lidt bredt begreb, ved du tilfældigvis where to start?

Men kan du ikke uddybe det eller linke til noget relevant?

Jeg foretager en søgning på emnet lidt senere og så vender jeg tilbage.

Hvorfor langt fra? Det jeg mener er, at hvis man hvis vil forbedrer sig fysisk, og spiller håndbold, så ville det ikke være dumt at kigge på hvordan man træner football atleter.

Jo, meget endda.

Stop du bare her for du har ikke ret og får det heller ikke. De biologiske systemer der benyttes i hhv amr. fodbold og håndbold er vidt forskellige. EOD

Det fysiske aspekt i håndbold kan vel sættes meget lig football.

Nej langt langt fra.

Blanco:

Ligger desværre ikke inde med nogen data på håndbold med ved der er mange derude i sær da dette er/har været en utrolig populær sport i Rusland/Soviet.

Classification of the Means 2005

By James Smith

www.powerdevelopmentinc.com

In regards to strength training for sport; many comparisons and arguments have been initiated in reference to the Olympic weight lifts and their derivatives and the power lifts and their derivatives. Such debates are futile and often commenced by individuals who lack a fundamental understanding of the transference of various types of exercise to sports form.

First, all means (exercises) must be classified as general, general specific, or specific.

General means qualify as those which do not directly assist in perfecting or developing sport skill; but rather, serve to develop general physical qualities such as general work capacity, muscle cross-section, increased bone density, connective tissue strength, flexibility/mobility, etc.

General Specific means qualify as those which match the energy system demands (speed of muscle contraction, duration of effort, etc) of the sport skill and some or all of the active musculature yet do not match the amplitude and direction of the sport skill.

Specific means qualify as those which exactly match the amplitude and direction of the sport skill and, correspondingly, develop the special work capacity and have a direct effect on the development of sport skill.

Following are some examples of various means and their classification relative to different sporting disciplines:

American Football (Linemen)

• General- Olympic lifts, power lifts, any other lift performed with barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells , etc
  
• General Specific- pushing a weighted implement (e.g. sled, tire, special training apparatus, etc), performing intermittent contact/hitting drills, game simulation wearing a weighted vest, etc for 4-10 second repetitions
  
• Specific- one on one contests against an opponent for 4-10 second repetitions
  

Track and Field (100m)

• General- Olympic lifts, power lifts, any other lift performed with barbells, dumbbells, kettle bells, etc
  
• General Specific- double/single leg bounds, jumps, landings, depth jumps, alternating bounds, sprints wearing a weighted belt or vest, sprints up a mild grade, etc
  
• Specific- variable intensity sprints over different distances
  

Track and Field (Shot, Disc, Hammer)

• General- Power lifts, rows with barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells, presses/swings with dumbbells, kettlebells, GHR, pull ups, back raises, step ups, lunges, jumps onto a box, bounds, landings, depth jumps, etc
  
• General Specific- Olympic lifts, powerlifts performed explosively with submaximal weight, weighted throws heavier or lighter then the competition implement, medicine ball throws, kettle bell throws, etc
  
• Specific- variable intensity throws (Range Throwing RE A.P. Bondarchuk) with the competition implement
  

Track and Field (High Jump)

• General- Power lifts, Olympic lifts, any other lift performed with barbells, dumbbells, kettle bells, etc
  
• General Specific- any bounds, jumps, weighted jumps, depth jumps, etc other then the competition exercise
  
• Specific- high jumps over various heights
  

Olympic Weightlifting

• General- rows with barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells, presses/swings with dumbbells, kettlebells, GHR, pull ups, back raises, step ups, lunges, jumps onto a box, bounds, landings, depth jumps, etc
  
• General Specific- front squat, back squat, overhead squat, box squat, SS Bar squat, cambered bar squat, squatting a barbell suspended in chains, squatting a barbell resting on pins, GM’s, GM out of chains, GM off of pins, bench press with different grips, incline/decline bench press, push press, military press, overhead press off of pins/out of chains, jerk from stands, power jerk (if split jerk is used in competition), split jerk (if power jerk is used in competition), clean from blocks, clean from hang, power clean, snatch from blocks, deadlift with snatch/clean grip off of blocks, floor, suspended in chains, pulls with snatch/clean grip from hang/floor/off boxes/out of chains, snatch from hang, power snatch, accommodating resistance with bands and/or chains, lightened method with bands, contrast method with weight releasers, etc
  
• Specific- Snatch and C&J with varied intensities
  

Powerlifting

• General- rows with barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells, presses/swings with dumbbells, kettlebells, GHR, pull ups, back raises, step ups, lunges, jumps onto a box, bounds, landings, depth jumps, etc
  
• General Specific- bench presses with different grips, board presses, floor presses, incline presses, decline presses, overhead presses, pressing a barbell suspended in chains, box squats, front squats, full squats, SS Bar squats, cambered bar squats, squatting a barbell suspended in chains, squatting a barbell resting on pins, GM’s, GM out of chains, GM off of pins, GM with specialty barbells, deadlift off of boxes, pins, chains, bench pressing/squatting/deadlifting with gear that is stronger or weaker then the competition gear, accommodating resistance with bands and/or chains, lightened method with bands, contrast method with weight releasers, etc
  
• Specific- competition squat, bench press, deadlift with competition gear and varied intensities
  

In reference to the material listed above, one may conclude that the sport skill must determine the classification of the means. Consequently, a general means for one sport discipline may qualify as a general specific or specific means for another sport discipline. Any arguments initiated over general means must, correspondingly, be initiated solely by those individuals who have a grossly insufficient understanding of the training process; as general means have little effect on the perfection of sport skill. This fact is demonstrated in the physical preparation of American football players in the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA). Various Division 1 teams which have a history of winning/competing in national championships (for their respective divisions) all utilize widely varying means and methods of strength training in their weight rooms. These same organizations; however, all have excellent recruiting capabilities and top level coaching. Consequently, the process of deduction allows any intelligent individual to realize that what is done in the weight room, no matter how optimal, orthopedically sound, or absurd, has very little correlation with the success of the football teams who have the luxury of being populated by the most gifted athletes and coaches. Here we see the glaring lack of impact which General means have on the highly qualified athlete’s perfection of sport skill.

A careful analysis of the physiology, biomechanics, etc of sport skill allows the coach to understand what classifications of training means to employ at what volume/intensity throughout the training year. Former Soviet and Eastern Bloc scientists, coaches, and athletes have, for years, (at the Olympic level) demonstrated the significance of programming various means and methods, ranging in transference to sports form, throughout the yearly cycle.

Conjugate Sequencing (illustrated in Table 1 and modeled towards collegiate American Football) allows one to observe a visual representation of the percentage of the training load comprised of General (G), General Specific (GS), and Specific (S) methodics throughout the year cycle.

In reference to Table 1 we may conclude that G means are emphasized early in the prepatory period with GS and S means trained at an ancillary capacity. GS is the next regime of means to become emphasized as the competitive season approaches with S moving up the chain of priority and G dropping down to ancillary capacity. During pre-comp and comp S comprises the greatest concentration of the training load with GS and G retaining ancillary training load/intensity until the comp season where S and G comprise the majority of the training load.

Important to note is that spring ball is not accounted for in the loading of Table 1. If spring ball were to be accounted for one would observe a spike in S means, up to concentrated loading, midway through the sequence of training blocks followed by a decay back down to an ancillary status until pre-comp.

To put this into a more meaningful context with respect to the sport (American Football); we see that weight training initiates the off-season training at a concentrated capacity and sequentially comprises less of the volume/intensity of the training load as the comp season approaches. During the actual comp season the weight work does not comprise any significant volume (relatively speaking) of the training load intensity; as the primary function of the weight training during comp phase is to maintain the contractile strength of muscle tissue developed in the prior training blocks. During the comp phase weight training will also play a key role in prehabilitation and rehabilitation protocols. The GS means serve a vital function for bridging the gap between G and S and are extremely effective for developing the motor functions inherent to sport form. The ‘general’ aspect of the GS means, however, introduce motor patterns distant enough from sport form so as to avoid overuse injury which would be likely to occur as a result of cumulative/repetitive stress effect if S was emphasized year round. As comp phase enters; however, the training load volume of GS means are reduced, along with G means, as the S means comprise the vast majority of the training load intensity.

In order to provide any useful insights we must introduce meaningful and specific context. Accordingly, it is important to note that the Table 1 merely outlines one particular plan for the acyclic sport discipline of American Football and that the planning for one sport discipline must not be considered a universal template for other sport disciplines; specifically when considering acyclic and cyclic activities.

The classification of means is absolutely fundamental for the successful programming of the training load for any sport discipline. Consequently, any coach whose responsibility lies in developing the physical abilities of any sportsman must exercise the programming skill to integrate various methodics at varying degrees of the training load intensity throughout the yearly cycle. Here we see the value of not only physical but tactical (planning/strategy) and technical (regulation of GS and S means) preparation. The development of these qualities, along with psychological preparedness, is inherent to the multi-faceted PASM.

The classification of the means is inherent to optimal programming and the regulation of the intensive components of the training load. Debating over General means, this lift or that lift is an elementary undertaking which serves no useful purpose in the training of any athlete.

The training process is an organic whole. General, General Specific, and Specific means must be accounted for in the overall plan regardless of which coaches regulate which regimes of work. As a result, the athletes will be optimally primed for, and throughout, the competitive phase.

Hvad vil være en vital SPP øvelser for en lineman...Bænkpress er mere GPP da den ikke involvere benene... Push press eller prowlers sprints?

Bænkpres er GPP. Prowleren er et sted mellem SPP og GPP. Push presses ville være GPP.

Nu aner jeg intet om amerikansk fodbold men i rigtigt fodbold vil jeg mene at ingen spillere ville kunne være så fysisk forberedt at det aldrig nogensinde vil blive presset derud hvor de arbejder med laktat ophobning i musklerne.

Man ser jo ofte i kampe hvor spillere finder et ekstra gear og spiller og løber over normal formåen hvis viljen og kampens vigtighed er stor nok. Danskernes kamp mod Holland i 92 kunne være et godt eksempel på dette.

Ikke alle professionelle fodboldspillere er tilstrækkelig forberedte.

Du kan givetvis ikke forestille dig at det skulle være muligt at undgå en ophobning af laktat fordi din egen forberedelse (fodbold wize) er SHIT.

No offence, but let's state the obvious.

Jeg gentager lige:

Alt generel preparation phase træning kan erstattes med hvad? med specifik preparation? jeg forstår ikke din pointe prøve at forklarer eller konkretisere, med et eksempel

Du misforstår.

Lad os tage det mest basale GPP for en kaster (atletik).

General- Power lifts, rows with barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells, presses/swings with dumbbells, kettlebells, GHR, pull ups, back raises, step ups, lunges, jumps onto a box, bounds, landings, depth jumps, etc

Ingen af disse øvelser er vitale. De vil altid kunne erstattes med andet GPP.

Har bare svært ved at se hvordan man helt kan få det til at fungere i praksis

Med en tilstrækkelig fysisk forberedelse. Så simpelt er det.

Udelands webshop. De danske kan ikke følge med prismæssigt.

Hmm, fodboldspillere der løber spurter over 2x45min., der tror jeg nu nok det laktiske kommer til at spille ind

First off there is no reason to ever train soccer players, male or female in the anaerobic-glycolitic zone and there is no need for speed endurance in soccer players. The key for these players is speed at anaerobic threshold i.e. aerobic power and capacity and a very well developed alactic system both capacity and power. I don't know which time motion study you have found but Valter Di Salvo director of Real Madrid Sport Science lab did a time motion study in 2006 and found that the avg. high speed running distance (speed endurance 19.9-25.2 km/h) and total distance per game of only 0.71, with the longest sprint (sprint speed of >25.3 km/h) rarely longer then 20m. See statistics below:

Soccer frequently is called a “multiple sprint sport”. However, the average number of sprints in this investigation mentioned above is 14.3 ± 6.1(range: 327). Like in other investigations, sprints covered with highest speed are rarely longer than 20 meters in distance (Reilly et al., 1976; Winkler, 1985; Bangsbo et al., 1991; Müller et al., 1996; Müller et al., 1998). In average these more or less frequent sprints last about 2 seconds, corresponding to an average distance of 17 meters (Bangsbo et al., 1991).

So the training should involve aerobic/alactic work both in conditioning and skill work, different dribbling courses, and so on. There is no need to develop the anaerobic-glycolitic capacity or power as this training will actually cause negative effects to the aerobic development which soccer players can ill afford to have happen.

Mark McLaughlin

Hvorfor ikke til almindelig fodbold?

Fordi ej heller fodbold er laktisk.

Athlete X > Det kunne sgu være spændende at følge din egen træning! Men det var no go så vidt jeg husker?

Ja, no go desværre.

I min klub hvor jeg spiller er vanviddet på sit højeste:

10 x 100 meter sprint med incomplete recovery er ikke et særsyn. Vi kalder det Conditioning. Et ord, der ingen mening giver uden kontekst. Engang fik min træner mig til at hoppe over en lille hurdle med små steps i så lange sæt, i så mange sæt, indtil min lægmuskel bristede og jeg var ude af stand til at gå i to uger. Men her skal man huske på sit mantra "No Pain No Gain " - det var jo for mit eget bedste. Agility ladders og misforstået "agility" træning er varemærket til practices. Akkumulering af mælkesyre er godt, mener trænerne. Jo hårdere desto bedre og vi bliver rigtig udholden i kampene.

Hvor lang tid før den reelle sæson du øger din laktisk kapacitet kan sikker gøre en forskel. Jeg siger ikke du skal træner efter dette princip hele sæsonen. Hvis du de først 2-3 uger øger din kapasitet mener jeg ikke det skader, disse fibre kan hurtigt ændres til mere eksplosive fibre igen.

Men for at kunne holde til hård træning i den efterfølgende periode kan det være et middel. Hvis du har mange løb i en kamp kan det jo også forkomme at der kommer laktisk aktivitet. Enten det eller du kan sænke din fart, derfor mener jeg ikke det kan skade i et mindre omfang i starten af en trænings periode og i en lille udstrækning :)

Det ville jeg f.eks mener at man så i super bowl, ved en interception til et TD :)

Akkumulerer man laktik i kroppen under en amr. fodbold kamp er man ikke tilstrækkelig fysisk forberedt. EOD.

Laktisk arbejde skal ikke være tilstede i den fysiske forberedelse for en amr. fodbold spiller. End ikke en almindelig fodbold spiller. EOD.

Agility ladders er awesome...

...nej egentlig ikke med mindre man vil være bedre til stepdans eller salsa - hvilket heller ikke er awesome.

Bemærk hvorledes en football spiller ALDRIG vil bevæge fødderne, som der ses i videoen. ALDRIG.

JonJak, kan næsten ikke holde op med at grine højlydt nu:

Det virke som uberiget kritik, fra en som kun træner styrke træning?

Ved nærmere kig i din log er det jo netop hvad, som kendetegner din træning. Du løfter vægte og dyrker atletik samt football. That it. Løfter vægte.

hvem, hvad, hvor, hvornår, hvorfor

Glemte: Hvordan.

Meget meget vigtig.

Jon, udholdenhed er ikke bare udholdenhed og ikke nødvendigvis lig laktisk arbejde i alle sportsgrene. Amerikansk fodbold er alaktisk-oxidativt.

Udholdenhed i football er flere komponenter. Alaktisk kapacitet fx. Evnen til at udvise eksplosivitet spil efter spil efter spil. Laktisk arbejde har en direkte negativ indflydelse på den aerobe kapacitet.

At indtræde i et laktisk miljø har INTET med amerikansk fodbold at gøre. INTET

Du har misforstået en hel række fundamentale ting omkring football.

Det er korrekt at nogle af de ting du i videoene ser er ganske legetime øvelser. Det største problem med disse trænere er dog deres manglende forståelse for hvem, hvad, hvor, hvornår, hvorfor, hvorhenne konceptet. Det er vitalt når betydninger appliceres i et program.

Min egen træner er head coach ved et stort NFL program. Jeg kender flere dygtige trænere og spillere på det personlige plan i både NFL, NCAA og i den private business. Med andre ord har jeg rigeligt med insider viden til at udtale mig, som jeg gør.

Nu er der vel grænser for hvor meget spillestil kan variere de fysiske krav til en amerikansk football spiller?

Du har fuldstændig ret. Fysiske krav varierer position wize og kun utroligt minimalt hvad angår playbooken. Desuden har det intet at gøre med kritikken jeg retter.

Uansvarligt og egoistisk at udsætte patienter (potentielt svage patienter) for smitte risiko.

jeg omformuleret mig... læse lige igen

Er du enig med mig er jeg enig med dig.

Er GPP ikke nødvendigt?

Jo, men alt GPP kan erstattes.

Ja du laver bevægelsen i armen... det er sku da ikke det samme som at det er en begrænsende faktor... i et bænkpress spænder jeg også op i gluteus maximus... er den en begrænsende faktor?

det kan være at jeg tager fejl i forhold til det med power vs. størrelse.. men jeg kan sku ikke lige komme på det nu

Det kan SAGTENS være en begrænset faktor for videre resultater. SAGTENS. Alt afhængig. Og fordi noget på et givent tidspunkt ikke ikke er den begrænsede faktor betyder det ikke det ikke skal adresseres. Og ja en øgning af tværsnitsarealet i skuldermuskulaturen er ikke nødvendigvis en skidt ting.

Jeg har bestemt ikke altid været god til det. Da jeg gik i skole var det en kamp at komme op 7.30 for at nå bussen. Specielt i gymnasiet. Men da jeg kom ind i militæret blev jeg ligesom tvunget til at stå tidligt op.

Da jeg så fik arbejde bagefter, begyndte jeg at køre sammen med tre andre til og fra, og så var der andre der afhang af, at jeg var på et givent tidspunkt hver morgen. Kom man for sent kostede det enten kage, øl etc. og naturligvis en ugelang hån. Så jeg har fået det ind med modermælken siden '96, og nu ligger det bare på rygmarven. Når vækkeuret ringer står jeg op. Jeg er stadig på en arbejdsplads der ikke venter på mig. Så når jeg skal være klar 6.55, så er det altså 6.55 og ikke 6.58, for så står der x antal kolleger og dækker over mig indtil da, og de skal nok lære mig at komme til tiden næste gang.

Den indkøringsperiode er ikke ret lang medmindre man vil fyres på et slagteri, så man lærer det ganske hurtigt, hvorfor jeg i dag ingen problemer har med at komme op, og er avanceret til selv at være én af de hårde hunde der håner og griner af folk der kommer med søvnen hængende ud af øjenkrogene, uglet hår og sjusket påklædning fordi de kom for sent op.

Fy for helvede. Ja, undskyld mig. Men bare det at læse om at stå tidligt op gør mig hel utilpas indeni. Jeg ville nok have godt af en tur i militæret.

Når jeg har de tidlige vagter er programmet meget kompakt om morgenen. Jeg står op, går nedenunder og tager tøj på, går ud i bilen, kører så i 20 minutter, går fra p-plads til omklædningsrum, klæder om og er klar kl. 5.00. Ingen dikkedarer overhovedet. Jeg har altid 2 x 1 kilo økologiske havregryn og mindst én liter letmælk stående i skab + køleskab på arbejde, så morgenmaden de morgener indtager jeg først når jeg er på arbejde. Gider ganske simpelt ikke stå op 4.10, når jeg med lidt effektivitet kan strække mobilens ugudelige toner til 4.30 ved at være lidt kvik i replikken når jeg så først står op. På en normal dag hvor jeg skal møde 6.55 står jeg op 5.40, og så er der masser af tid til morgenmad derhjemme inden afgang.

Time management. Konceptet giver pludselig mening når man får børn.

Det er vildt. Har du altid været god til dét om morgenen? Nogen gode råd eller handler det bare om at toughe op og tage en kold tyrker?

En halv time er hvad jeg alene bruger på at få tøj på - no kidding. haha.