Athlete X

Athlete X. hvad er din viden om styrke træning baseret på??? er du elite udøver? har du er idræt relateret uddannelse?

Hvad er en eliteudøver? Er det en, som er "godkendt" af team-danmark?

det kunne været sjovt at se bevis for hvorfor tung styrketræning gør en langsommere. Det er lidt sjovt at de fleste her inden er uenig med dig.

Styrketræning isoleret vil kun gøre dig hurtigere såfremt du er novice. Udover dette vil max styrke intet hjælpe hvis evnen til at udvise explosivitet og acceleration ikke er tilstede.

Det er jo galamatias når i siger at man skal løfte tunge tunge vægte for at blive hurtigere. Sådan mol i en nøddeskal.

Hvis det gjorde sig gældende ville elite styrkeløfterne være blandt de hurtigste og mest eksplosive i verden = not true.

Hvorfor så opsat på at gennemføre din træning på 45 min?

T.O skal til at udvise noget ydmyghed. Han skal lukke røven og lade være med at være på nakken af Romo.

Se hvor meget Eli blomstrede da han slap af med Shockey.

Wade Phillips er en awesome co-ordinator men en forfærdelig head coach. En skamplet for Dallas og football i al almindelighed.

Jerry Jones er ved at blive en Al Davis.

Disciplin er hvad, der vinder. Bill Parcells, Tom Landry, Bear Bryant, Bill Cowher, Tom Coughlin er hvad jeg snakker om.

Jeg må beklage overfor trådstarter. Jeg troede der var tale om fodbold.

Dette kunne så ikke være mere usand - har du overhovedet noget med styrketræning at gøre?

Udvikler du ikke evnen til at udvise eksplosivitet vil, der komme et punkt hvor træning udelukkende med vægte i sin essens indlærer nervesystemet "langsomhed" så at sige.

Som tidligere skrevet skal du fokuserer på få grundøvelser som løftes få gange med god tid imellem sættene og med stor vægt og max acceleration i hvert løft.

Opvarmning og så 5 sæt squat (stå forholdsvis bredt da du skal kunne genererer kraft sideværts) som beskrevet.

Derefter 5 sæt bænkpres/row som supersæt og afslut med 3 sæt stivbenet dødløft til knæene)

Du burde kunne være færdig på under 1 time og så burde du også kunne presse 2 styrketræningspas ind hver uge.

Hvis der er en kvalificeret træner der hvor du træner kan du overveje om du vil inkluderer frivend senere.

Kan du virkelig ikke tale om andet end vægttræning? Vægttræning er kun en brøkdel af den samlede fysiske forberedelse.

I din situation vil du træne nok hurtighed og smidighed i din håndboldtræning så ingen grund til også at bruge styrketræningstiden til det

Det er heller ikke korrekt, Niels.

Takker. Men hvad skal jeg så lave på mine off dage? Der står jo en masse support øvelse nævnt som jeg lave på mine gym dage. Jeg træner en standard ME understel mandag, ME bænk onsdag, DE understel fedag, DE overkrop søndag .

Så har i nogle mere specifikke forslag til noget på off dagene?

Først må du spørge dig selv om hvad du vil opnå ved de ekstra workouts på "off-dagene"?

Farmer:

Du finder ingen relevant information her på dette fora. Hverken fra mig eller de øvrige brugere.

Måske du skulle se nærmere på Mark McLaughlin og Landon Evans fra Performance Training Center.

De er blandt de bedste i feltet og har korresponderet en del med de større klubber i Europa her i blandt AC Milan, Liverpool, Manchester, Chelsea, Juventus ect ect.

De skriver begge på Elitefts.com og du kan sågar selv stille dem spørgsmål. Omformulér dit spørgsmål til engelsk og send det afsted til dem.

Det er ikke maxstyrken jeg er ude efter - men tung styrketræning er en simpel måde at blive bedre til at udvikle sin RFD på...

Du kan eventuelt læse hvad Hephey har skrevet, hvis du er i tvivl...

Du bliver kun en hurtigere ved tung træning, som uforberedt. Udover dette bliver du faktisk langsommere af at løfte vægte.

Du skal dødløfte og Squatte. Det er to øvelser du ikke kommer udenom. 5x5 3x om ugen.

Hej Jeppe,

Du er sikkert blevet en smule vildledt af alt Louie Simmon's snak om brug af slæden og lignede redskaber.

GPP/SPP er så at sige en klassificering af specificitet og overførsel til en given sportsgren.

Dette betyder at hvad, der er GPP for én sportsgren, kan være SPP for en anden.

Somregelt opdeles, der yderligere i G, GS og S. Altså General, General Specific og Specific.

GPP <-----------------------------------------------------------> SPP (Main competition excercise) (Høj dynamisk korrespondance)

Classification of the Means

By James Smith

www.powerdevelopmentinc.com In regards to strength training for sport; many comparisons and arguments have been initiated in reference to the Olympic weight lifts and their derivatives and the power lifts and their derivatives. Such debates are futile and often commenced by individuals who lack a fundamental understanding of the transference of various types of exercise to sports form.

First, all means (exercises) must be classified as general, general specific, or specific.

General means qualify as those which do not directly assist in perfecting or developing sport skill; but rather, serve to develop general physical qualities such as general work capacity, muscle cross-section, increased bone density, connective tissue strength, flexibility/mobility, etc.

General Specific means qualify as those which match the energy system demands (speed of muscle contraction, duration of effort, etc) of the sport skill and some or all of the active musculature yet do not match the amplitude and direction of the sport skill.

Specific means qualify as those which exactly match the amplitude and direction of the sport skill and, correspondingly, develop the special work capacity and have a direct effect on the development of sport skill.

Following are some examples of various means and their classification relative to different sporting disciplines:

American Football (Linemen)

• General- Olympic lifts, power lifts, any other lift performed with barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells , etc
  
• General Specific- pushing a weighted implement (e.g. sled, tire, special training apparatus, etc), performing intermittent contact/hitting drills, game simulation wearing a weighted vest, etc for 4-10 second repetitions
  
• Specific- one on one contests against an opponent for 4-10 second repetitions
  

Track and Field (100m)

• General- Olympic lifts, power lifts, any other lift performed with barbells, dumbbells, kettle bells, etc
  
• General Specific- double/single leg bounds, jumps, landings, depth jumps, alternating bounds, sprints wearing a weighted belt or vest, sprints up a mild grade, etc
  
• Specific- variable intensity sprints over different distances
  

Track and Field (Shot, Disc, Hammer)

• General- Power lifts, rows with barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells, presses/swings with dumbbells, kettlebells, GHR, pull ups, back raises, step ups, lunges, jumps onto a box, bounds, landings, depth jumps, etc
  
• General Specific- Olympic lifts, powerlifts performed explosively with submaximal weight, weighted throws heavier or lighter then the competition implement, medicine ball throws, kettle bell throws, etc
  
• Specific- variable intensity throws (Range Throwing RE A.P. Bondarchuk) with the competition implement
  

Track and Field (High Jump)

• General- Power lifts, Olympic lifts, any other lift performed with barbells, dumbbells, kettle bells, etc
  
• General Specific- any bounds, jumps, weighted jumps, depth jumps, etc other then the competition exercise
  
• Specific- high jumps over various heights
  

Olympic Weightlifting

• General- rows with barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells, presses/swings with dumbbells, kettlebells, GHR, pull ups, back raises, step ups, lunges, jumps onto a box, bounds, landings, depth jumps, etc
  
• General Specific- front squat, back squat, overhead squat, box squat, SS Bar squat, cambered bar squat, squatting a barbell suspended in chains, squatting a barbell resting on pins, GM's, GM out of chains, GM off of pins, bench press with different grips, incline/decline bench press, push press, military press, overhead press off of pins/out of chains, jerk from stands, power jerk (if split jerk is used in competition), split jerk (if power jerk is used in competition), clean from blocks, clean from hang, power clean, snatch from blocks, deadlift with snatch/clean grip off of blocks, floor, suspended in chains, pulls with snatch/clean grip from hang/floor/off boxes/out of chains, snatch from hang, power snatch, accommodating resistance with bands and/or chains, lightened method with bands, contrast method with weight releasers, etc
  
• Specific- Snatch and C&J with varied intensities
  

Powerlifting

• General- rows with barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells, presses/swings with dumbbells, kettlebells, GHR, pull ups, back raises, step ups, lunges, jumps onto a box, bounds, landings, depth jumps, etc
  
• General Specific- bench presses with different grips, board presses, floor presses, incline presses, decline presses, overhead presses, pressing a barbell suspended in chains, box squats, front squats, full squats, SS Bar squats, cambered bar squats, squatting a barbell suspended in chains, squatting a barbell resting on pins, GM's, GM out of chains, GM off of pins, GM with specialty barbells, deadlift off of boxes, pins, chains, bench pressing/squatting/deadlifting with gear that is stronger or weaker then the competition gear, accommodating resistance with bands and/or chains, lightened method with bands, contrast method with weight releasers, etc
  
• Specific- competition squat, bench press, deadlift with competition gear and varied intensities
  

In reference to the material listed above, one may conclude that the sport skill must determine the classification of the means. Consequently, a general means for one sport discipline may qualify as a general specific or specific means for another sport discipline. Any arguments initiated over general means must, correspondingly, be initiated solely by those individuals who have a grossly insufficient understanding of the training process; as general means have little effect on the perfection of sport skill. This fact is demonstrated in the physical preparation of American football players in the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA). Various Division 1 teams which have a history of winning/competing in national championships (for their respective divisions) all utilize widely varying means and methods of strength training in their weight rooms. These same organizations; however, all have excellent recruiting capabilities and top level coaching. Consequently, the process of deduction allows any intelligent individual to realize that what is done in the weight room, no matter how optimal, orthopedically sound, or absurd, has very little correlation with the success of the football teams who have the luxury of being populated by the most gifted athletes and coaches. Here we see the glaring lack of impact which General means have on the highly qualified athlete's perfection of sport skill.

A careful analysis of the physiology, biomechanics, etc of sport skill allows the coach to understand what classifications of training means to employ at what volume/intensity throughout the training year. Former Soviet and Eastern Bloc scientists, coaches, and athletes have, for years, (at the Olympic level) demonstrated the significance of programming various means and methods, ranging in transference to sports form, throughout the yearly cycle.

Conjugate Sequencing (illustrated in Table 1 and modeled towards collegiate American Football) allows one to observe a visual representation of the percentage of the training load comprised of General (G), General Specific (GS), and Specific (S) methodics throughout the year cycle.

Loading

Sequence of Training Blocks

Concentrated

G

G

GS

GS

S

S

Distributed

G

GS

GS/G

S

S

S

Distributed

GS

S

S

GS/G

GS

S

Distributed

S

G

G

G

G

GS/G

→

→

→

→

→

Comp

In reference to Table 1 we may conclude that G means are emphasized early in the prepatory period with GS and S means trained at an ancillary capacity. GS is the next regime of means to become emphasized as the competitive season approaches with S moving up the chain of priority and G dropping down to ancillary capacity. During pre-comp and comp S comprises the greatest concentration of the training load with GS and G retaining ancillary training load/intensity until the comp season where S and G comprise the majority of the training load.

Important to note is that spring ball is not accounted for in the loading of Table 1. If spring ball were to be accounted for one would observe a spike in S means, up to concentrated loading, midway through the sequence of training blocks followed by a decay back down to an ancillary status until pre-comp.

To put this into a more meaningful context with respect to the sport (American Football); we see that weight training initiates the off-season training at a concentrated capacity and sequentially comprises less of the volume/intensity of the training load as the comp season approaches. During the actual comp season the weight work does not comprise any significant volume (relatively speaking) of the training load intensity; as the primary function of the weight training during comp phase is to maintain the contractile strength of muscle tissue developed in the prior training blocks. During the comp phase weight training will also play a key role in prehabilitation and rehabilitation protocols. The GS means serve a vital function for bridging the gap between G and S and are extremely effective for developing the motor functions inherent to sport form. The 'general' aspect of the GS means, however, introduce motor patterns distant enough from sport form so as to avoid overuse injury which would be likely to occur as a result of cumulative/repetitive stress effect if S was emphasized year round. As comp phase enters; however, the training load volume of GS means are reduced, along with G means, as the S means comprise the vast majority of the training load intensity.

In order to provide any useful insights we must introduce meaningful and specific context. Accordingly, it is important to note that the Table 1 merely outlines one particular plan for the acyclic sport discipline of American Football and that the planning for one sport discipline must not be considered a universal template for other sport disciplines; specifically when considering acyclic and cyclic activities.

The classification of means is absolutely fundamental for the successful programming of the training load for any sport discipline. Consequently, any coach whose responsibility lies in developing the physical abilities of any sportsman must exercise the programming skill to integrate various methodics at varying degrees of the training load intensity throughout the yearly cycle. Here we see the value of not only physical but tactical (planning/strategy) and technical (regulation of GS and S means) preparation. The development of these qualities, along with psychological preparedness, is inherent to the multi-faceted PASM.

The classification of the means is inherent to optimal programming and the regulation of the intensive components of the training load. Debating over General means, this lift or that lift is an elementary undertaking which serves no useful purpose in the training of any athlete.

The training process is an organic whole. General, General Specific, and Specific means must be accounted for in the overall plan regardless of which coaches regulate which regimes of work. As a result, the athletes will be optimally primed for, and throughout, the competitive phase.

Tunge vægte, få reps & og forsøget på at være så eksplosiv som muligt i den kontraktive fase, skal uden tvivl nok kunne hjælpe dig på den rette vej...

Hvorfor skal han dedikere sin træning til tunge loads?

Især taget i betragtning af hvor minimal en max styrke, der er nødvendigt for en målmand eller en fodbold spiller i al almindelighed.

Den optimale hastighed for at øge styrke er hverken hurtig eller langsom men nærmere moderat.

Det er på tide at Dallas kommer af med T.O. Den mand er gift for holdet.

Jo bedre udviklet din aerobe kapacitet er desto hurtigere vil din puls også falde.

det var en sparta træner (pt. er sparta danmarks mest vindene klub også for ungdom) jeg vil lige prøve at for en af min gamle venner fra sparta til at ligge et ex. på et træning pas op her (han er sprinter, mellem distanceløber og kaster)

nu vil jeg lige læse dit link godt igennem. kan jeg ikke også få dig til at give et forslag på et trænings pas???

Du har misforstået det hele.

Træning bør ikke være en-dimensionel men multi-dimensionel.

Der er mange hensyn, betragtninger, overvejelser etcetera, der skal gøres når et program skal designes.

Selvom "Hvis du laver øvelse x og y får du z" programmer er de mest udbredte er det ikke svaret.

ALT vil virke i en begrænset periode for uforberedte atleter.

du vil da ikke påstå at der bliver kørt meget muskeludholdhed træning (3x15 2x20 osv.)?

Har jeg påstået dét?

Men squat er en øvelse man ikke kan komme ude om. jeg ved den bliver brugt af sprintere (og alle andre atleter)

Det er ikke nødvendigt at squatte. Den kan benyttes, men den er ikke nødvendig.

de intervaller jeg nævner er måske ikke helt præcis, men jeg har dog stadig set unge (14-16 åring) sprintere lave træning hvor de løb 120 hurtigt med 280m jog efter. opvarmning eksemplet jeg giav, ved jeg de lave tit. Du må dog være enig i at intervaller skal være korte og meget hurtige med lang pause.

Du kan ikke forvente at hvad du ser blive gjort af trænere såvel, som "certificerede" trænere er korrekt.

Bump, nu med endnu en bog :-)

Hvorfor er bogen aldrig blevet åbnet?

Det tager ca. 48timer for musklerne at restituere og man man bør ikke træne samme muskelgruppe før den er fuldt restitueret med mindre man sigter efter at overtræne i en kort periode (sikkert også andre grunde til at gøre det...)

Jeg har gennem de sidste 5 måneder haft arbejde til benene ca. 5-6 gange om ugen, 2-4 gange dagligt. Mine ben er friske nok.

Med hensyn til styrke skal du tænke stor og tungt. Man kan ikke undgå øvelse Squat (jump sqaut ovs.) Det er alfa omega. 3x6 4x4 5x5 med 2-5min. Pause ville være mit forslag til hvordan du skulle styrke træne. styrketræning skal primært øge din RFD

Hvorfor mener du at squat og jumpsquat er vitale? Hvorfor mener du at man skal løfte "stort og tungt", og hvad er kontekst her i?

ved 2x4x100m forstår at man løb 2 set af 4 reps. på 100m det give 800m i alt. der ligger en pause efter hver interval og en længere efter hvert set (SP). 100m + 200m + 300m i alt 600m interval (godt nok taget efter et program for 800m 2 uger før from top) med en pause på 8min. nogle gange har jeg set pause på helt op til 12min. det jeg prøve at sige er at du skal lave/løbe nogle intervaller hvor du giver den gas med lang pause. f.eks. 10x20sek. med 2min. pause

Du vrøvler og igen ingen kontekst.

Det er svært ikke at komme til at lyde arrogant men egentlig har du ikke en flyvende fis forstand om hvad du snakker om.

Til trådstarter: http://www.charliefrancis.com/ og glem alt om hvad Triathleten har sagt.

Dan, din dagsform er fænomenal.

Skal du ikke til at logge igen?

Jeg kan vel kun konstatere at du ikke har forstået artiklen, eller ikke vil ?. Men som så mange gange før, tager du fejl.

Tjaa denne artikel ligger såmænd her på foraet. http://www.motion-online.dk/styrketraening...styrketraening/

Og?

En øgning af maximal / limit strength vil kun gøre de utrænede/lavt forberedte hurtigere.

Det kan være fuldstændig lige meget hvor stærke ens ben er hvis kapaciteten til at demonstrere eksplosivitet og acceleration ikke er tilstede.

Og hvorfor overhovedet dedikere det meste af sin træning med vægte med loads over 90 %?

Jo, og velkommen til rød stue. Er du uenig i at mange opfatter eksplosiv/dynamisk træning som træning mellem 65-75 % med få reps? Bl.a. WSB'erne bruger det og kraemer, fleck, og mange af de andre bruger også de udtryk, så jeg kan ikke gennemskue hvad dit "nej" det går på? Måske du kunne uddybe det så vi rent faktisk kunne få en diskussion om det? Jo vs nej bliver nok lidt kedeligt i længden.

For god ordens skyld; I Westside er de ved at gå helt væk fra hvad Louie i tidligere artikler refererer, som 'dynamic effort' metoden.

Mit postulat var at mange bruger betegnelsen eksplosiv/dynamisk om træning med fokus på fart, med få reps og intensitet mellem 65 og 75. Det er ikke effektiviteten af det vi diskuttere, det er begrebet, og det synes jeg selv du underbygger med dit citat?

Nej, det er ganske givet ikke korrekt. Det gør mange ikke. Men inden for jern sportsgrenene gøres der sikkert.

Jo, og velkommen til rød stue. Er du uenig i at mange opfatter eksplosiv/dynamisk træning som træning mellem 65-75 % med få reps? Bl.a. WSB'erne bruger det og kraemer, fleck, og mange af de andre bruger også de udtryk, så jeg kan ikke gennemskue hvad dit "nej" det går på? Måske du kunne uddybe det så vi rent faktisk kunne få en diskussion om det? Jo vs nej bliver nok lidt kedeligt i længden.

Jeg er ikke klog, så jeg nøjes med at citere folk, der er. Take it or leave it:

Joe, in order to discuss speed strength and strength speed with any meaningful context we must discuss the training means and the specific sport.

It is entirely nebulous to have a discussion without providing more meaningful context.

By definition we know that speed strength characterizes an unloaded or very small externally loaded movement to be executed with the greatest possible speed.

Strength speed also demands that the load be moved with the greatest possible speed; however, the load must be greater because the velocity must be lower in order to develop strength.

I think that it's too vague to limit the parameters of speed strength and strength speed to two absolute parameters.

Example:

Lifter A squats 60% with the greatest possible speed, then Lifter A squats 80% with the greatest possible speed.

Regardless of the actual velocity attained on either lift we know that the 60 is faster and the 80 is slower.

But how much more speed is developed with 60 and how much more strength is developed with 80...

It doesn't end there, however.

We can easily draw any comparison we want:

39% to 89%

45% to 93%

56% to 58%

70% to 94%

and on and on and on

The reality is that, assuming the load is moved as fast as possible, the lighter the load the faster it moves and, thus, the greater the speed component.

Alternatively, the greater the load the slower it moves and, thus, the greater the strength component.

To state that a powerlifter, who trains according to what is publicly recognized as the Westside method, trains speed strength on DE day is only meaningful within the context of that system because we know that the loads lifted on the primary ME exercise are much greater.

If one uses an accelerometer such as the Tendo we know that the target on DE day is somewhere in the vicinity of .7 and .8 meters per second. As the load increases the velocity will decrease to .6, .5, .4 etc and as the velocity slows we know that strength is the governing factor that determines whether the load is successfully lifted

NOT SPEED

Which is why as my knowledge grew I became confused as to why a powerlifter would lift lighter loads as fast as possible.

The only way that I am able to rationalize the efficacy of this for a powerlifter, who trains according to the Westside model, is to state that any 'speed' developed on DE day is secondary in importance, relative to the goal of improving the limit of strength, to the fact that you are simply lifting less weight and the lesser weight is a reprieve from the heavier weight lifted on ME day.

I suspect that this is the appeal of the program that Joe Defranco has popularized in which there is simply a heavier day of lifting and a lighter day of lifting.

Back to discussing speed strength and strength speed, a powerlifter who trains according to Westside might state that he/she is moving 'fast' on DE day and, thereby, developing speed strength; however, if we widen the context to comparing different training objectives such as a lifting a barbell at .8 meters per second and a world class 100m sprinter who reaches 12 METERS PER SECOND! then we see that, comparatively, the .8 meters per second that the powerlifter is squatting the barbell might as well be in slow motion compared to the velocity that the sprinter is moving.

So, according to this example, the .8 m/s that the powerlifter squats the bar on DE day is faster than the velocity that a limit weight is lifted on ME day and by comparison more speed strength is developed on DE day;, the sprinter who trains at +10 m/s during training might as well be moving at light speed compared to the powerlifter lifting 50-60% at .8 m/s

My point?

Why would a powerlifter spend training time and energy on lifting the barbell faster.

If he/she is sold on a heavy day and a lighter day why not simply lift the sub-max loads at a comfortable speed.

After all, the Soviets found that the optimal tempo of lifting for strength development was NOT slow, nor is it FAST, but rather, MODERATE

Speed strength and strength speed are relative terms.

It is more accurate to state that one is developing 'more' speed strength or 'more' strength speed than to make the blanket statement that one is training speed strength or one is training strength speed.

Joe, the question you asked me seems to indicate that you are referencing lifting barbells.

The question I ask you is...

Unless you are competing in a 'who can lift X percentage the fastest contest'- why are you concerned with how fast you lift the barbell?

Of the barbell sports (powerlifting and weightlifting) neither athlete is ever judged on how fast the weight is lifted.

The weight is either lifted...

or it's not.

If you were inquiring as to why athletes other than powerlifters or weightlifters might train for more speed strength or more strength speed then I have, in fact, just wasted a great deal of time typing this response.

Fordelen ved et brystbælte, af hvad jeg kender af, er at du også kan benytte denne ved en hel del maskiner såsom ellipticals og løbebånd da mange af disse indeholder trådløs modtager.

Sålænge uret har en 'beep' funktion når du kommer væk fra den ønskede zone skulle det passe fint til dit behov.

Jeg benytter mig af et Polar ur i den mest skrabede udgave og det virker upåklageligt.