Mikkel leicht Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Nogle der ligger inde med nogle Bulgarske eller Rumænske programmer? eller artikler ? Er meget intresseret i at læse deres træningsmetoder etc. Har jo læst en masse WSB, så kunne godt tænke mig at se hvad de bulgarske gør og hvordan de rumænske gør... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 bulgarsk ondskab (sakset fra strength and power in sports)Mandag morgenTræk - kører op til 6 max effort singlerStød - kører op til 6 max effort singlerFront squat - kører op til 6 max effort singlerMandag middagTræk - kører op til 6 max effort singlerStød - kører op til 6 max effort singlerFront squat - kører op til 6 max effort singlerMandag aftenTræk - kører op til 6 max effort singlerStød - kører op til 6 max effort singlerFront squat - kører op til 6 max effort singlerTirsdagSamme som mandagOnsdagRåtræk - kører op til 6 max effort singlerFrivend + opadstød - kører op til 6 max effort singlerBack squat - kører op til 6 max effort singlerTorsdagSom mandagFredagSom mandagLørdagSom onsdagSøndagdagsformHvordan nogen kan holde til det er over min forstand (eller det er det ikke, men det er fanme slemt). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel leicht Posted February 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 bulgarsk ondskab (sakset fra strength and power in sports)Mandag morgenTræk - kører op til 6 max effort singlerStød - kører op til 6 max effort singlerFront squat - kører op til 6 max effort singlerMandag middagTræk - kører op til 6 max effort singlerStød - kører op til 6 max effort singlerFront squat - kører op til 6 max effort singlerMandag aftenTræk - kører op til 6 max effort singlerStød - kører op til 6 max effort singlerFront squat - kører op til 6 max effort singlerTirsdagSamme som mandagOnsdagRåtræk - kører op til 6 max effort singlerFrivend + opadstød - kører op til 6 max effort singlerBack squat - kører op til 6 max effort singlerTorsdagSom mandagFredagSom mandagLørdagSom onsdagSøndagdagsformHvordan nogen kan holde til det er over min forstand (eller det er det ikke, men det er fanme slemt).ohh maa god! Hmm men det er jo lavet til vægtløftning og ikke Styrkeløft... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptpoul Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Jeg troede de arbejdede op til et dagsmax (uden oppsykning) og derefter sænkede vægten en anelse. Denne vægt bankede de så singles ud med.Men det er måske når de deloader?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 et eksempel på bulgarsk træning.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel leicht Posted February 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 et eksempel på bulgarsk træning..Stadig et vægtløftnings program og ikke styrkeløft... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 det som man traditionelt forbinder med bulgarske træningsprincipper er der nok mere tradition for i VL end i SL. Jeg er heller ikke sikker på at det kan overføres til SL uden videre, idet de langsommere og mere force betonede (i modsætning til power) bevægelser i SL nok stiller krav til længere restitution.De skulle dog være klart hvad principperne er, eller hvad.Det program jeg linkede til ovenover er iøvrigt vistnok den matrix abadiev brugte til sine løftere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heliotropen Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 (edited) Ikke at jeg vil sige jeg NØDVENDIGVIS er 100% enig, så er følgende citat af Tudor Bompa IMO relevant!I just wish that people wouldn't compare apples to oranges. In order to discuss this we have to better qualify what Bulgarians and Russian Olympic weightlifters were doing in the time of the communist system. Yes, the Bulgarian Olympic lifters were training from 9:00 AM to 5:00 or 6:00 PM, 45 minutes on and 30 minutes off, except for the lunch break of some two hours. The Russians weren't powerlifters. They were Olympic lifters and what they were doing is something they've adapted to progressively over several years. Most of these athletes had a background of eight to ten years before they were doing that kind of training. Also, remember that their training regimen was done in national training camps, where training, sleeping, and food ingestion were the only things they were doing. In addition, they weren't working on anything else, just lifting the bloody barbells! I'm not as impressed - exaggerations and myths aside - as many seem to be, simply because I have a similar background, where my athletes were training two to four times per day with a total of five to eight hours of training! Now let's examine what pro-athletes are doing in the US. They train technically, tactically, speed, agility and strength/power several times per week, some up to three times per day. Is anybody suggesting that these athletes have to bench press 21 times per week? Team sports, however, aren't the best examples regarding training. Many amateur athletes train much more than pro-players. Also, the quality of coaching in many team sports, especially with regard to strength and conditioning, is quite pathetic. Similarly, some of the professional coaches - in fact, the majority - have a very poor understanding of training theory. What do I think about the programs you mentioned? Who cares? Would I like to duplicate in this continent what my athletes have done in training camps in Romania? Not at all! Different societies, different times and mentality! Yet several of the athletes trained or consulted by myself in this continent have won against the East Europeans several times with just half of the amount of training time! One of the key elements in training is to have high training knowledge and excellent methodology in applying it. Being equipped with such knowledge can do miracles. Forget about the "locker room gossip" regarding Russians and BulgariansOg lidt Mel Siff jeg før har postet adskillige gange rundt omkring:From: Mcsiff@a... Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 1:12 pmSubject: Russian & Bulgarian TrainingWe often seem to revisit the topic of specificity of training and a comparison of the methods used by the Russians and Bulgarians, so I would like to share comments made to me in Russia some years ago by Prof Alexei Medvedev, former world champion weightlifter, coach of the Russian national team and current Head of the Department of Weightlifting at the State Central Institute of Physical Culture in Moscow.We were discussing (through an interpreting friend) this very issue of Bulgarian vs Russian training methods. He shared many insights with me, including the different methods of quantifying training intensity and periodising weightlifting for different classes of lifter, but this one short comment stood out at the time:Standing there in his dimly-lit office with his hand on my shoulder, Prof Medvedev said: "Why do you think that the Bulgarians have so many injuries?" He went on to comment on the typically long years of top-level competition by Russian athletes, their higher average age at the Olympics and their lower injury rate. He added that a certain Bulgarian coach had been contracted to work with teams in China and before long the increased injury rate and drop in consistent form had ended up in his being dismissed very quickly (actually, he used a rude gesture with his arm to show exactly what the Chinese felt about that coach!).To add to this debate from the other side of the fence, my weightlifting coach for several years was a top Bulgarian lifter who had trained with Abadjiev and Spassov, as well as all the famous names in contemporary Bulgarian lifting and he had very definite views on the Bulgarian system, both good and bad. In explaining what athletes are expected to do in Bulgaria, their coaches told them that if they became injured or painfully overtrained, then they obviously weren't good enough for top level competition!With great satisfaction, he added that if a nation with a total population of only one big American city could place so often in the top few nations at the Olympics, then something serious must be wrong with American training. That was his simplistic analysis! (Anyway, that was before the last Olympics). No results, no use for anyone! Bulgarian athlete - no results - no place for you! At first I thought that this philosophy is unduly harsh, when I realised that it is not all that different anywhere else in the world. The Chicago Bulls start losing a few games in basketball and in no time, the fans are baying for blood. In world soccer, the scene is no different, nor in American football. Win most of the time and the fans are deliriously happy - lose one or two and all the armchair experts and team owners are ready to sacrifice coaches and players.So, when one examines the so-called Bulgarian system, one cannot lose sight of the different cultural systems governing the sport. One cannot simple take a philosophy, training method or lifestyle (or even foodstuff) from one country and hope to apply with equal success anywhere else.Anyway, a lot of this talk about 'Bulgarian' and 'Russian' systems is somewhat of a misnomer, for, as Medvedev emphasized to me: "There is no such thing as one Russian system - we have many coaches and guidelines and each coach is allowed to develop his own system. It is the Americans who are so rigid , not us - they want fast foods, fast formulae and fixed programs that are easy to apply". He nodded in agreement when I commented: "You mean something like a sporting MacDonalds where you can drive up and get a training program off a menu without waiting?" Sad and amusing, but all too often, true in America. Why do you think that muscle building, fitness, strength training, sports, rehabilitation and health books sell best if they offer rigidly devised set exercise routines for anyone and everyone, without much attempt at in-depth analysis or individualisation?Dr Mel C SiffDenver, USAhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Supertraining/ M.V.HHelio Edited February 12, 2006 by heliotropen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 nu kommer den gode Mikkel Leicht sikkert snart og skriver noget med at det stadig handler om vægtløftning...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heliotropen Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 det øverste stammer iøvrigt fra det kendte interview hvor Mike Mahler interviewer Tudor Bompa; det spørgsmål han stiller som overstående er svar på er følgende: Fair enough. I've read that in Bulgaria, Olympic athletes train five times a day, seven times a week and that Russian powerlifters bench press up to 21 times a week. What do you think of this training frequency and would these types of programs be beneficial to a natural trainer?Alt i alt er det selvfølgelig uhyre kompliceret at danne sig et retfærdigt og totalt overblik over hele den østeuropæiske trænings metodik; hvilket jeg mener man dog bør prøve på når man ønsker noget såsom;at se hvad de bulgarske gør og hvordan de rumænske gør "Prøve på", fordi der er så mange sider at det nok ikke er så ensidst nemt som det nemt kan lyde; (det skal måske sige det er et emne jeg selv har brændt voldsomt for i adskillige år.) Ud af mange relevante, gode værker kan jeg iøvrigt starte med at anbefale;"Theory and Methodology of Training" 1983" - Bompa T & "Secrets of Soviet Sports Fitness & Training" 1987" - Yessis M!M.V.HHelio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptpoul Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Der findes thibaudeaus version af den.http://web.archive.org/web/20010219221918/...dian_naprt.htmlMen man skal sgu reagere godt på intensitet og have tiiight teknik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heliotropen Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 (edited) Uden på nogen måde at snakke i relevans til den nævnte artikkel, så har jeg meget svært ved at vurdere Chris Thibaudeaus sande kompetence inden for det nævnte emne. (og selvfølgelig ikke bare fordi manden ikke kan udføre et korrekt overhead squat iøvrigt j.v.ft crossfir journal Aug 2005, p11) Jeg snakker mere ud fra "The Black Book of Training Secrets", jeg ved ikke om i har læst den!M.V.HHelioPS; Det skal dertil nævnes at jeg har koresponderet en del med Christian Thibaudeau (i positiv kontekst), så det er som sådan ikke for at neglere ham som person, trænings guro eller noget andet; jeg kan bare ikke rigtigt selv vurdere det. - bare lige et lille måske irelevant indskud/tilskud! især nu Ptpoul snakker om tiiight teknik :o) Edited February 12, 2006 by heliotropen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Der findes thibaudeaus version af den.http://web.archive.org/web/20010219221918/...dian_naprt.htmlMen man skal sgu reagere godt på intensitet og have tiiight teknik. Enig.. tror ikke at det er for alle og enhver! for ni ud af ti er der nok "bedre" alternativer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptpoul Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Uden på nogen måde at snakke i relevans til den nævnte artikkel, så har jeg meget svært ved at vurdere Chris Thibaudeaus sande kompetence inden for det nævnte emne. (og selvfølgelig ikke bare fordi manden ikke kan udføre et korrekt overhead squat iøvrigt j.v.ft crossfir journal Aug 2005, p11) Jeg snakker mere ud fra "The Black Book of Training Secrets", jeg ved ikke om i har læst den!M.V.HHelioPS; Det skal dertil nævnes at jeg har koresponderet en del med Christian Thibaudeau (i positiv kontekst), så det er som sådan ikke for at neglere ham som person, trænings guro eller noget andet; jeg kan bare ikke rigtigt selv vurdere det. - bare lige et lille måske irelevant indskud/tilskud! især nu Ptpoul snakker om tiiight teknik :o)Det med tight teknik refererer mere til at et teknisk dårligt udført løft vil koste mere at restituere fra. Derudover kræver tunge vægte, fokus, disciplin og god teknik.Dette system anvender max ikke spykede vægte mange gange om ugen. Det kræver meget af løfteren.Ved ikke hvad Thib's personlige tekniske niveau er. hans bøger skulle dog være en fin måde at få tilgang til meget af Siff's arbejde i en mere fordøjeligt formuleret form.Jeg glæder mig til selv at tygge mig igennem hans bøger på et tidspunkt Personligt tror jeg dog at DE, ME, RE og SE metoder stadig fungerer for mig lidt endnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptpoul Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Enig.. tror ikke at det er for alle og enhver! for ni ud af ti er der nok "bedre" alternativer.. Det var dog sjovt at maxe hele tiden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel leicht Posted February 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 nu kommer den gode Mikkel Leicht sikkert snart og skriver noget med at det stadig handler om vægtløftning...... Der findes thibaudeaus version af den.http://web.archive.org/web/20010219221918/...dian_naprt.htmlMen man skal sgu reagere godt på intensitet og have tiiight teknik.Ser spændene ud... Tror jeg vil læse den igennem 2-3 gange og måske skrive noget ned i en lidt simplificeret form, stadig med samme metoder filosofi... Helio - Nogle gode argumenter ... Håber der kommer noget mere input.. Altid rart med flere vinkler til tingene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heliotropen Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Ved ikke hvad Thib's personlige tekniske niveau erHere are some bad overhead squats from people who certainlyought to know better.http://www.nasm.org/ContinuingEducation/Ar...rheadSquat.aspx hans bøger skulle dog være en fin måde at få tilgang til meget af Siff's arbejde i en mere fordøjeligt formuleret form. Bob bob, måske.. M.V.HHelio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptpoul Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 (edited) Det har squdda intet med OH squats at gøre...Mere fald forover og lign en idiot squats... Edited February 12, 2006 by ptpoul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heliotropen Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Det har squdda intet med OH squats at gøre...Mere fald forover og lign en idiot squats... Eksakt :) Som sagt crossfir journal Aug 2005, især p11; hvis man vil læse mere om sagen :)M.V.HHelio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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